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	<title>Comments on: Edward Teller on &#8220;Loyalty&#8221; (1948)</title>
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	<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/</link>
	<description>The Nuclear Secrecy Blog</description>
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		<title>By: Alex Wellerstein</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7136</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Wellerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jul 2012 10:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7136</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s a wonderful quip.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a wonderful quip.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark L.</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7012</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7012</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That makes sense to me.   I did some reading on the various atomic train projects, and Teller had a rather pithy quote on the subject - he described them as &quot;a most ingenious solution of the question how to combine minimum utility with maximum danger.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes sense to me.   I did some reading on the various atomic train projects, and Teller had a rather pithy quote on the subject &#8211; he described them as &#8220;a most ingenious solution of the question how to combine minimum utility with maximum danger.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Wellerstein</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7008</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Wellerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 17:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My understanding (picked up from... somewhere I cannot remember) is that Teller (like Vannevar Bush and James Conant, among others) was in the &quot;if there is a terrible accident early on, they will never let us play with this again&quot; camp. (He was also pretty skeptical of the idea that reactors should go on moving things, like airplanes and ships, because of the safety threat if they crashed.) Later, of course, he became extremely pro-nuclear, once there was actually an anti-nuclear crowd to contend with. 

I think Teller&#039;s an interesting, weird, easy-to-underestimate guy. I&#039;ve had Istvan Hargittai&#039;s book &lt;em&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1616142219/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&amp;camp=1789&amp;creative=9325&amp;creativeASIN=1616142219&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;tag=restrdata-20&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Judging Edward Teller&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt; on my desk for six months now -- I keep wanting to read it, but keep getting too busy with other things.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding (picked up from&#8230; somewhere I cannot remember) is that Teller (like Vannevar Bush and James Conant, among others) was in the &#8220;if there is a terrible accident early on, they will never let us play with this again&#8221; camp. (He was also pretty skeptical of the idea that reactors should go on moving things, like airplanes and ships, because of the safety threat if they crashed.) Later, of course, he became extremely pro-nuclear, once there was actually an anti-nuclear crowd to contend with. </p>
<p>I think Teller&#8217;s an interesting, weird, easy-to-underestimate guy. I&#8217;ve had Istvan Hargittai&#8217;s book <em><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1616142219/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&#038;camp=1789&#038;creative=9325&#038;creativeASIN=1616142219&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;tag=restrdata-20" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Judging Edward Teller</a></em> on my desk for six months now &#8212; I keep wanting to read it, but keep getting too busy with other things.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark L.</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7005</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark L.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7005</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Teller was also part of the Reactor Safeguards Committee in the early 50s, where he was apparently so strict he got it nicknamed the Reactor Prevention Committee.   I always thought that was bizarre, considering his later involvement with such radiologically questionable activities as Project Plowshare.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teller was also part of the Reactor Safeguards Committee in the early 50s, where he was apparently so strict he got it nicknamed the Reactor Prevention Committee.   I always thought that was bizarre, considering his later involvement with such radiologically questionable activities as Project Plowshare.</p>
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		<title>By: Ologe</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7004</link>
		<dc:creator>Ologe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe the scientific community was just looking for a scapegoat then. In which case, they actually found a good one. I mean, this man refused to die, literally!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the scientific community was just looking for a scapegoat then. In which case, they actually found a good one. I mean, this man refused to die, literally!!</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Wellerstein</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-7000</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Wellerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-7000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s always possible, but Teller was one witness (out of 40), and 18 pages of testimony (out of 992 pages total). Teller&#039;s testimony were entirely based on generalized, personal opinions about Oppenheimer&#039;s actions post-WWII, especially on the GAC report, which had already been hashed over a million times in minute detail.

He couched everything he said in qualifications, in the possibility that he understood it wrong, that he heard things wrong. He acknowledged that most of what he had was hearsay. He spent a huge amount of the testimony &lt;em&gt;praising&lt;/em&gt; Oppenheimer as an administrator at Los Alamos, as the author of the Acheson-Lilienthal plan, as 

It didn&#039;t come right at the end — there was plenty of time to rebut. 

And frankly, from Teller&#039;s point of view, everything was accurate. (Teller&#039;s point of view was, as is well known, factually off the mark at times, and he certainly took fliers on interpreting &quot;what if&quot; situations.)

I just don&#039;t see the &quot;damning&quot; quality to it. He did say that he didn&#039;t think Oppenheimer should have a clearance, which is a nasty thing to do. But it&#039;s not the nastiest thing in the record, and there&#039;s no evidence that it was particularly persuasive, or that it pushed anybody from one point of view to another.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Mr. GRAY. I think you have explained why you feel that way. I would then like to ask you this question: Do you feel that it would endanger the common defense and security to grant clearance to Dr. Oppenheimer?

The WITNESS. I believe, and that is merely a question of belief and there is no expertness, no real information behind it, that Dr. Oppenheimer&#039;s character is such that he would not knowingly and willingly do anything that is designed to endanger the safety of this country. To the extent, therefore, that your question is directed toward intent, I would say I do not see any reason to deny clearance.

If it is a question of wisdom and judgment, as demonstrated by actions since 1945, then I would say one would be wiser not to grant clearance. I must say that I am myself a little bit confused on this issue, particularly as it refers to a person of Oppenheimer&#039;s prestige and influence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s about as serious as it gets. 

The thing is, there &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; a &quot;damning&quot; witness in the Oppenheimer hearing. One who undoubtedly was responsible for swaying people&#039;s opinions. One whose testimony ran a whopping 230 pages, and showed that Oppenheimer was indeed inconsistent, frequently displayed bad judgment, and outright lied when questioned by security officers. This witness&#039;s name was, of course, J. Robert Oppenheimer. 

I think we should give credit where it is deserved, separate from the question of whether Teller was a nice guy or not, or advocated big bombs or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always possible, but Teller was one witness (out of 40), and 18 pages of testimony (out of 992 pages total). Teller&#8217;s testimony were entirely based on generalized, personal opinions about Oppenheimer&#8217;s actions post-WWII, especially on the GAC report, which had already been hashed over a million times in minute detail.</p>
<p>He couched everything he said in qualifications, in the possibility that he understood it wrong, that he heard things wrong. He acknowledged that most of what he had was hearsay. He spent a huge amount of the testimony <em>praising</em> Oppenheimer as an administrator at Los Alamos, as the author of the Acheson-Lilienthal plan, as </p>
<p>It didn&#8217;t come right at the end — there was plenty of time to rebut. </p>
<p>And frankly, from Teller&#8217;s point of view, everything was accurate. (Teller&#8217;s point of view was, as is well known, factually off the mark at times, and he certainly took fliers on interpreting &#8220;what if&#8221; situations.)</p>
<p>I just don&#8217;t see the &#8220;damning&#8221; quality to it. He did say that he didn&#8217;t think Oppenheimer should have a clearance, which is a nasty thing to do. But it&#8217;s not the nastiest thing in the record, and there&#8217;s no evidence that it was particularly persuasive, or that it pushed anybody from one point of view to another.</p>
<blockquote><p>
Mr. GRAY. I think you have explained why you feel that way. I would then like to ask you this question: Do you feel that it would endanger the common defense and security to grant clearance to Dr. Oppenheimer?</p>
<p>The WITNESS. I believe, and that is merely a question of belief and there is no expertness, no real information behind it, that Dr. Oppenheimer&#8217;s character is such that he would not knowingly and willingly do anything that is designed to endanger the safety of this country. To the extent, therefore, that your question is directed toward intent, I would say I do not see any reason to deny clearance.</p>
<p>If it is a question of wisdom and judgment, as demonstrated by actions since 1945, then I would say one would be wiser not to grant clearance. I must say that I am myself a little bit confused on this issue, particularly as it refers to a person of Oppenheimer&#8217;s prestige and influence.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s about as serious as it gets. </p>
<p>The thing is, there <em>was</em> a &#8220;damning&#8221; witness in the Oppenheimer hearing. One who undoubtedly was responsible for swaying people&#8217;s opinions. One whose testimony ran a whopping 230 pages, and showed that Oppenheimer was indeed inconsistent, frequently displayed bad judgment, and outright lied when questioned by security officers. This witness&#8217;s name was, of course, J. Robert Oppenheimer. </p>
<p>I think we should give credit where it is deserved, separate from the question of whether Teller was a nice guy or not, or advocated big bombs or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Ologe</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-6999</link>
		<dc:creator>Ologe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 14:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-6999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could it be that most of the other claims were so absurd that they were dismissed as unfounded and, therefore, not worthy of attention?

Judging from the transcripts, Teller came across (to those at the hearing) as a man who had thought deeply and thoroughly about the &#039;problem&#039;. A man who, after painful attempts to discard his own intuition, to check his own bias, and to give Oppenheimer the benefit of the doubt, still felt compelled to testify against the &#039;accused&#039;. My question is: did Teller&#039;s testimony POTENTIALLY carry more credibility at the hearings? If so, maybe that&#039;s why he got most of the beating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could it be that most of the other claims were so absurd that they were dismissed as unfounded and, therefore, not worthy of attention?</p>
<p>Judging from the transcripts, Teller came across (to those at the hearing) as a man who had thought deeply and thoroughly about the &#8216;problem&#8217;. A man who, after painful attempts to discard his own intuition, to check his own bias, and to give Oppenheimer the benefit of the doubt, still felt compelled to testify against the &#8216;accused&#8217;. My question is: did Teller&#8217;s testimony POTENTIALLY carry more credibility at the hearings? If so, maybe that&#8217;s why he got most of the beating.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Wellerstein</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-6993</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Wellerstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-6993</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Compared to other things said about Oppenheimer at the hearing or in the correspondence that got it started — that he had lied multiple times to the security people, that he was part of a secret (absurd) &quot;ZORC&quot; conspiracy to tank the Air Force, that he was potentially a Soviet agent — it is terribly mild, yet Teller&#039;s testimony is the only one we ever hear about and describe as &quot;damning.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compared to other things said about Oppenheimer at the hearing or in the correspondence that got it started — that he had lied multiple times to the security people, that he was part of a secret (absurd) &#8220;ZORC&#8221; conspiracy to tank the Air Force, that he was potentially a Soviet agent — it is terribly mild, yet Teller&#8217;s testimony is the only one we ever hear about and describe as &#8220;damning.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Ologe</title>
		<link>http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/2012/07/11/edward-teller-on-loyalty-1948/#comment-6991</link>
		<dc:creator>Ologe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Jul 2012 13:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nuclearsecrecy.com/blog/?p=2090#comment-6991</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really don&#039;t think Teller was overdone on this one. Yes, he gave a measured response, but at the end of it all, his conclusion was clear and his conclusion was this: &quot;If I were the President of the United States, I would replace Oppenheimer&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really don&#8217;t think Teller was overdone on this one. Yes, he gave a measured response, but at the end of it all, his conclusion was clear and his conclusion was this: &#8220;If I were the President of the United States, I would replace Oppenheimer&#8221;.</p>
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